How Things Change

Posted: February 5th, 2012 under Background, Reader Help, the writing life.
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In the book I’m working on,  the Company is once more camped near Ifoss, as in Sheepfarmer’s Daughter.   In that book, the Company camped on the west side of town.    Now they’re camping on the east side.  Moreover, the town’s changed some (as most towns did, during and after Siniava’s War.   Paks at that point didn’t care whether the town had a grange;  it does…on the west side.    Ifoss is still the smallest of the Foss Council cities, but its wall is no longer complete; expansion after Siniava’s War (the war to end wars, in the locals’ minds) led them to breach the wall to the northwest, while retaining most of the rest.    Several inns are mentioned in Sheepfarmer’s Daughter, and without my notebooks it didn’t occur to me to reuse any of the same names.  Until now, when–looking for something else–I ran across them.  So  there’s another bit of revision to be done.

Due to mmph-mumble in Echoes and this book, I’ve been reviewing the oldest map of Aarenis I have, printed in Sheepfarmer’s  Daughter (it was part of the original master map, now lost.  Unless of course I find it after finishing all of Paladin’s Legacy.)    Certain names not actually used (I don’t think) in that book–though perhaps mentioned–have things happening there in the new book.

What I can’t find (so  far) in Sheepfarmer’s Daughter is the conversation in which someone (Stammel?  Someone else?) mentions in Paks’s hearing the relationship between Andressat and Cilwan.   I’m suddenly worried that I’ve remembered it wrong, and had been zipping through the book (my old, battered mmpb copy) trying to find it.   So if anyone has the time and inclination in the next day or so, it would be helpful to have a reference for that.

Meanwhile, I have everything on my agent’s list done (I hope!!) but part of C-22 and all of C-28.    C-22 is  mostly done, C-24 is done (barring a correction that might come from someone locating that passage), and C-28 I’m staring at with perplexity all over my face.     Because C-28’s a very VERY important chapter in which very important things happen, and I thought I’d done it well.  (Oh–by the way–these won’t be the chapter numbers you see next year when this book comes out, because of the new chapter that’s been inserted much earlier and some other adjustments.    But until all the adjustments are done, I’m using the old chapter numbers so I can use the notes I made when my agent called.)

Anyway, C-28 is going to be a difficult one to redo.   I have to figure out why it didn’t work for my agent when it worked so well for me, and then figure out how to make it work for both of us and all the rest of you, too.


  • Comment by Moira — February 5, 2012 @ 8:58 pm


    I was just on the point of giving up when I found this (I hope it’s what you’re looking for):

    Chapter 27 of SF’s D, page 269 of my all-in-one mmpb, Vladi sergeant talking to Stammel.

  • Comment by PocketGoddess — February 5, 2012 @ 9:34 pm


    Depends on what you mean by “relationship” so I searched my ebook version for Cilwan and then cross-referenced the page numbers with my omnibus edition of Deed. I hope one of these is what you’re looking for!

    –Chapter 6, page 55 we learn that Kolya lost her arm at the siege of Cortes Cilwan
    -Chapter 12, page 116 general geography
    –Chapter 27, page 266 general description of the land, just before the Piuni plundering incident
    –Chapter 27, page 269 as the first poster mentioned
    –Chapter 29, page 286 the Company turns toward Cilwan
    –Chapter 30, page 298 when the Sobanai hirstar talks about Cilwan and Sofi Ganarrion

    There are more references in the next two books of the trilogy (starting on the first page of Divided Allegiance, then in Paks’ report to the council of Brewersbridge, and near the end of Oath of Gold at the beginning of Kieri’s journey to Lyonya), but you specified Sheepfarmer’s Daughter so I didn’t follow through on those page numbers.

  • Comment by elizabeth — February 5, 2012 @ 11:42 pm


    Moira: That’s exactly what I was looking for! Thank you! My memory had glitched, so I have to make a change in the current ms. I may have made an error in Echoes, but there’s nothing I can do about that now.

    Kathy_S: The quest for sound bites does not, of course, promote scientific–or political–or economic–literacy. But you’re on a totally different topic, or so it seems to me. The cartoon does in fact illustrate the problem of people making use of someone’s writing for purposes of their own (including finding the sound bite that suits their perceived needs) and I agree that this is a problem for scientists whose work is misrepresented. As for students and reporters “blindly applying advice on writing,” that’s not a problem limited to scientific writing, or indeed to writing. Students get hung up on rules in everything and have to be pried loose from rigid adherence to rules that don’t fit the circumstance and reporters, by the nature of their job, see everything in light of grabbing attention. Clarity should be the aim of all nonfiction (and most fiction) writers, leaving obfuscation to poets (not that I particularly like it in poetry, myself.)

    PocketGoddess: In my copy of SD, it’s page 435 (mass-market pb, first printing) ; I got hung up in the earlier mentions of Cilwan and just could not convince myself it was later in the book. Silly me.

    Thanks, all. I’m ingesting more chocolate and challah than I should to get this done. But I’m closer….

  • Comment by Richard — February 6, 2012 @ 10:00 am


    .. and in the UK omnibus edition (pb, but larger size), C27 is pp312-323 with the relevant remark on 318.

    At least with the new books (so far as I can tell from people’s comments) everyone has the same pages. Is that right?

    What be challah then? [imagine a rural accent]

  • Comment by elizabeth — February 6, 2012 @ 10:30 am


    Challah: a delicious, rich egg-bread, usually braided and coated with an egg-wash to make it shiny. Jewish in origin, and–aside from bagels–my favorite thing to eat at my mother’s friend’s house (Aunt Lil was my #2 mother; I stayed with them when my mother was sick.)

    Now very popular with others because it’s so good. I think it’s better than brioche, but it’s similarly rich. When I make it, I use an “authentic” recipe (e.g., handed down through a Jewish family.) This loaf is commercial, and doesn’t taste quite as good as mine (I’ll bet they didn’t use real butter!!)

    And now you’ll laugh at me and tell me you already knew…

  • Comment by Genko — February 6, 2012 @ 11:00 am


    Mmmmm… challah! I made some sourdough challah last summer that was absolutely the best. Wouldn’t have thought it, but it worked beautifully. Of course, making bread in the summer is a very different matter from making it this time of year when the kitchen tends to be drafty. In the summer bread rises almost too fast, and you have to watch it carefully — very lively!

  • Comment by Daniel Glover — February 6, 2012 @ 10:21 pm


    I actually like bread this time of year. Throw it in a six gallon kettle and let it rise sitting on the radiator. Moving on and off said piece of household fixture as needed to keep steady increase. Low pressure water radiators are great for this.

  • Comment by Iphinome — February 7, 2012 @ 1:27 am


    I used to call challah “cake bread” when I was little. Good stuff.

  • Comment by Genko — February 7, 2012 @ 11:28 am


    That works if you have water radiators — I had those in an apartment once and loved it. We have no such thing here. The Zendo building is actually heated with steam radiators, but the House we cook in has forced-air gas, and we keep the heat low. What a lot of bread bakers are doing is putting a little heat into the oven and turning it back off, just enough to warm it up a bit, and letting the bread rise in the oven. That’s fine unless someone else needs to use the oven to bake things.

  • Comment by Jenn — February 7, 2012 @ 11:39 am


    Challah sounds very similar to Paska. I will have to look it up and compare recipes.

  • Comment by Richard — February 7, 2012 @ 4:20 pm


    Elizabeth, I really didn’t know (and neither did my dictionary). Obviously we don’t have challah in the UK. Brioche – from France – and bagels we have just about heard of.

    When I do buy special bread it is made with cheese.

  • Comment by elizabeth — February 7, 2012 @ 9:31 pm


    Richard: I am an evil person so I’m going to tell you that when I Googled on “challah UK” I got a pageful. First, should you want to make it for yourself:…/braided-challah-bread.asp.. and

    Then, should you wish to learn more about the traditions around challah in Jewish homes–and incidentally find some places to get it in London:

    I didn’t dig any deeper into Google to see if you can find bakeries that make challah in other UK locations.

  • Comment by Iphinome — February 7, 2012 @ 11:14 pm


    @Richard any chance you’re coming to worldcon in Chicago this year? I’d be happy to direct you to an excellent Jewish bakery.

  • Comment by elizabeth — February 7, 2012 @ 11:39 pm


    You know a good Jewish bakery in Chicago??? I’m coming to WorldCon…and I’m always up for a bakery trip.

    (There used to be this great Jewish bakery/deli in San Antonio in easy driving distance of our house when we lived there. They moved to somewhere way out northwest, which I have not been able to find even with Google directions, maps, etc. It’s in or near a little shopping center where the many-lane road its on is about to run into a big “loop” freeway and it’s impossible to slow down and actually look for a sign…and their sign, if there, isn’t big enough to see.)

  • Comment by Iphinome — February 8, 2012 @ 3:01 am


    I live a block from a great Jewish bakery, convenient to public transportation but not particularly convenient to the con itself.

    Take the yellow line to Dempster, walk east one block, Kaufman’s deli and bakery. Any morning I want a fresh bagel it is right there. Or was and will be, there was a very minor fire recently but they expect to be open again before summer.

    I’d be happy to provide an annotated public transit map when next you’re here as I offered before or a blank one, there’s bins of them at almost every train station and I usually carry a couple to give to tourists who ask directions. I’d also be more than happy to play the role of delivery girl, I am, as always, at your service even if as a free sword type I am not in your service.

    site url do ignore that the menu includes blueberry bagels, such an abomination is only a concession to the gentiles.

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