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…is supposed to trump youth and beauty. But who is really old? A half year ago, Kieri, Arcolin, and Dorrin would have said they were growing old. Not ancient, just old. Kieri, some of you will recall, commented to the Marshal-General (in Oath of Gold) that he was getting old and didn’t have an heir, and worried about the fate of his domain. (He was right to worry, but for other reasons…)
Arcolin is almost Kieri’s age, within a year or two, but just as Kieri is a natural leader, Arcolin is a natural second in command. Now he’s inherited–with no effort on his part–a domain, a mercenary company, and a whole slew of responsibilities he never anticipated. Like Kieri, he’s aware of the need to provide an heir. Unlike Kieri, he has no memories of past loves to distract him…well, one, but he’s given up on her. He’s struggled, since his promotion, to figure out what he’s supposed to do and do it.
Dorrin’s a little younger than Arcolin, but also had been feeling her age–there’s some gray in that black hair now, and some stiffness in the joints in the mornings and cold weather. She, like the others, considered herself as one of the “seniors”…not feeble, but not young or inexperienced.
People older than they (humans, that is) they expect to be weaker, sliding slowly or quickly toward death. Wisdom is hoped for, but never a certainty.
But cunning? Treachery? Until the discovery of the ability to move personalities from body to body, none of them had considered that. And serial transfers to successively younger bodies…just how old are the oldest of the magelords? That remains to be seen. But there is no evidence so far that all have been found, exposed, and eliminated.
Verrakaien have bided their time before, when trouble closed around them. They are likely to let the new duke alone for awhile–the first attacks failed, so withdraw, regroup, plan better next time.
Another ancient with a taste for treachery threatens…Achrya the Webspinner. Dorrin has cast Liart out of her domain (or–to the best of her knowledge she has) but as someone else remarked, if you toss one demon out the door, and don’t put something better in, another demon may sneak into the empty space. Dorrin has Falk on her side–but her people are not yet converted to any positive good.
Nor is that all…for Kieri, too, faces some very ancient and possibly treacherous foes….and friends. Kings of the North opens new cans of worms, and the book I’m working on now simply dumps them out by the cartonload…though I’m not sure they all belong in that book. Yet.
So our main characters, who think of themselves as being of the older generation…are by no means the oldest or most cunning. It’s certainly possible that not all of them will survive–or, if they survive, will have to do so by re-inventing themselves (modern terminology.)
Comment by teRa — April 21, 2010 @ 12:26 am
New knowledge adds to wisdom & changes everyone. Can’t wait to read where it leads each! Maybe in time for next years marking extravaganza.
Comment by APagan — April 21, 2010 @ 5:47 am
Thanks Mrs Moon!!!
Now i really can’t wait until next year 😀
This is all a test of patience… I look forward to walking with you on these new adventures filled with cans of worms that are dumped out so that they can be sifted through!!
Comment by Tuppence — April 21, 2010 @ 9:07 am
Cue the sinister sounds from the synthesizer!
(If one does not happen to have an oldstyle movie theater organ handy)
Comment by elizabeth — April 21, 2010 @ 9:09 am
Movie theater organ, or maybe even orchestra. Yes, there’s trouble coming, and what look like “Oh, yeah, rescue” is, um, somewhat more complicated than that.
Comment by elizabeth — April 21, 2010 @ 9:10 am
I’m glad you’re eager for it. The cans of worms…will they be dealt with before they breed and make more worms? Only the Plot Daemon knows for sure which make it to the end.
Comment by Dave Ring — April 21, 2010 @ 10:12 am
If the path to sainthood in Paks’ world involves the acceptance of death (Gird, Falk?), could the refusal of death (per the Verrakaien magelords) be a path to demonhood?
Comment by Rachel — April 21, 2010 @ 10:38 am
I actually had a scene from a different series pop into my head when I read this post title. In Tamora Pierce’s Trickster books there is a scene where Alanna (a knight in her forties) is having a practice bout with Kel (a knight who might be 20) and their friends are yelling encouragement. Those cheering for Alanna shouted “Old age and treachery!” while those cheering for Kel shouted “Youth and cunning!” Alanna wins the bout 🙂 In the context of Dorrin, it makes me think that she may still have more in her than she thinks she does, that and experience is an invaluable element of any engagement, whether with wit or sword.
Comment by elizabeth — April 21, 2010 @ 11:38 am
Rachel: Dorrin has spent so long trusting only a small part of her abilities–those directly linked to her military career–that she’s got to learn to access the other (and I don’t mean just the magery. She’s handling magery with her military experience, but she’s going to need some other things before we’re done.)
Comment by elizabeth — April 21, 2010 @ 11:55 am
Dave, you’re tracking well. In Liar’s Oath, the most serious of Luap’s errors was using his magery to prolong his life. He did not realize he was taking life from Aris and interfering with Aris’s ability to heal…but he was willing to use any means to stay younger because he was convinced only he could lead his people. He aborted leadership ability in others, rather than developing it, too.
There’s nothing wrong with living a long life, and nothing wrong with wanting to live a longer life…but there’s something wrong with taking life from others in order to do so. (In my ethos anyway.) And there are many ways to take life from others besides bashing them over the head with a rock. Political and economic ways. The Serrano/Suiza books deal with a modernized version of this…rejuvenation affects more than the individual who’s rejuvenated and has consequences for entire societies.
Here, in a fantasy world, I can have three people who by nature have different lifespans–Kieri, as a half-elf, will outlive both Arcolin and Dorrin if he’s not killed by malice. Dorrin has, innately, a longer lifespan than Arcolin, due to being a magelord, even without misusing her magery. Nothing wrong with that. But there’s always a temptation to prolong life if you have the means…always the temptation to think that your contribution (whatever it is) is so valuable that it justifies doing so “whatever the means.” And that opens the gate for evil. (It’s only one of the gates, but it is one.) I don’t know that it makes the person who so chooses into a demon…Luap wasn’t a demon, just terminally self-absorbed and self-fooling. But it could (doesn’t always) open the door to possession by a demon.
Comment by Dave Ring — April 21, 2010 @ 12:49 pm
I was actually wondering how demons like Achrya and Liart originated, and if an evil soul, surviving by repeated transfers and gaining skill in the temptation, domination and intimidation of others might eventually become such.
Comment by elizabeth — April 21, 2010 @ 3:18 pm
You will find out more about how Achrya originated; you may or may not find out about Liart (when I do.) Achrya has a very…um…unusual origin, and it’s not a spoiled magelord.
Comment by Larry Lennhoff — April 22, 2010 @ 7:58 am
In contemporary society, old age and experience are less valuable because the world is changing so rapidly much of what you’ve learned is no longer applicable.
That isn’t really applicable to Paksworld. The test I apply for the pace of change in secondary world is something I made up called ‘the Brigadoon test’. If some village only appeared one day every 100 years, how quickly would a stranger entering the village realize something was odd? A vintage 1910 American town appearing in 2010 would be instantly recognizable as weird. A 1550 British village appearing in 1650, not so much.
Comment by Eir de Scania — April 22, 2010 @ 8:46 am
It will be interesting to learn more about Achrya’s origins, especially now you told us the Pargunese have quite a different view on her.
Comment by elizabeth — April 22, 2010 @ 9:00 am
Larry, speaking as someone who’s now (buffs fingernails) got some experience and age, I disagree with your statement that old age and experience are less valuable than they used to be. Disclaimer first: it’s true that misuse of experience (the constant harping on how we did it in the old days) doesn’t help. It’s also true that it’s widely believed that old age and experience aren’t that useful anymore because everything’s changing so rapidly.
But in reality, many things aren’t changing that fast, and change is not happening at the same rate in all things (human color vision isn’t changing as rapidly as glacial melting in Iceland…change in global climate is faster than the rate of unaided botanical evolution…biology and technology aren’t on the same clock, etc.) Knowledge of previous conditions is critical to understanding the nature and rate of change in different domains.
Age allows an individual to have first-hand knowledge across domains and time both, and to have a much wider range of skills, including people-skills. That’s why adults can continue to develop intellectually and psychologically through life, and why they can think their way out of situations that younger adults can only batter their way through. Skills are transferable, but only if someone’s willing to learn. So the very assumption that the old have no useful experience or knowledge or skills wastes what they have that is useful.
Comment by Jim DeWitt — April 22, 2010 @ 11:25 am
Among Alaska Natives still living traditional lifestyles, elders are highly respected for the very reasons you describe. And those elders also provide a stabilizing role, smoothing cultural adjustment to a changing world. A kind of sea anchor in rough waters. I wish our Anglo-American culture had preserved a bigger role for elders.
Comment by Michael C — April 23, 2010 @ 2:34 pm
I think that age would have been, generally, a much bigger advantage in the Middle Ages simply because of demographics. The advantages of experience of a 60 or 70 year old would have been much bigger in a population where 20 was close to the average age, and most people were from small rural communities with poor communications to the outside world, would have been much bigger than they are now, when the average person is 40, much better educated, with much more access to information of all sorts.
Like others, I am excited to hear that there’s more information coming about Achrya! The fact that she can be perceived as a constructive deity, a goddess of industry and crafts, makes her interesting. (I’ve actually been specifically wondering about her origin since Oath of Fealty came out.)
I’m also curious about the orcs in Paks’ world. The juxtaposition between Paks’ perception of them (“a terrified face”, “this one’s no fighter”) and an elf, Haleron’s (“I would think even iynisin would call them enemy”) was very striking.
One thing I’m not following is why Arcolin needs to marry. I understand why Phelan needs to marry – he’s the last survivor of an ancient house. But Arcolin is, as far as I understand, just an officer who was ennobled because he knew the local situation, there was no obvious alternative candidate, and there were big problems elsewhere. If he should die without issue a few years from now, when things have settled down, I’m sure King Mikeli would be able to find some loyal and competent Tsaian noble who’d done something deserving a reward.
Comment by elizabeth — April 23, 2010 @ 3:06 pm
Michael: Orcs are confusing to me, at present. Back when I was writing the original books, I had one idea in mind for their origin, which in light of more reading in other fields, plus more thinking around the margins of this story-world, now seems less reasonable. So I don’t know whether to go with the older idea, or continue to let the backbrain wrestle with a newer one. Meanwhile…I write. But not about orcs. Achrya certainly has a special relationship with orcs, but then why were they in the banast taig? That evil wasn’t her or hers…I don’t think. Arcolin: there’s “need” and “need.” Arcolin has a fairly conventional mind, and the convention is that lords marry produce at least one heir. In a feudal society, this makes complete sense…if a lord dies in war (and such societies have a military basis) then there’s no need for a ruler to deal with succession problems at the same time as the war’s going on. A vacant domain means an immediate “land-rush” (at least in the ruler’s court, if not physically) to grab for it. The North Marches are a triple border…and thus a critical to Tsaia’s defense. True, the horse nomads haven’t been much trouble in the north…but there have been orc incursions from the north, and iynisin sometimes wander in that way. There’s long been a quiet but still unsettled dispute between Tsaia and Fintha on the exact boundary between them north of the Honnorgat (which tributary) and that land’s thiny settled. In addition, almost the entire population of the North Marches is military or ex-military..and its economic base is still dependent on the Company fighting for pay. Thus the choice of a new ruler isn’t as simple as you might think; someone quite capable of taking on a smaller “central” domain that’s got a solid, self-supporting agricultural base is going to have a problem taking on a much larger, wilder, poorer domain and a mercenary company to boot. If Arcolin produces an heir of the body, and a suitably experienced regent to rule until his heir’s of age, that’s a more stable situation (as Mikeli sees it.)
Comment by Chuck — April 23, 2010 @ 9:27 pm
When I first read “The Hobbit” (at age 12), it seemed a pretty straightforward equation: the elves were good, the orcs were bad. Further experience with Tolkien’s legendarium presented a more rounded picture of the elves; they were always proud, beautiful, and smart, but not always good or wise. The orcs remained always bad. Some of the volumes of history published by Christopher Tolkien contain evidence that the origins of the orcs, as a completely deprived race of beings, continued to trouble J.R.R. Tolkien and that he never hit on a solution that completely satisfied him.
However, based on the evidence of “Oath of Fealty,” I think we readers can trust that the author’s backbrain will deliver a solution for the orcs of Paksworld that will be satisfying when we get to read it, whether it turns out to be her earlier ideas or something that comes at her (and us) sideways. When the story is ready to go there, and needs an answer, it will come.
Comment by Daniel Glover — April 26, 2010 @ 12:51 pm
Or as Elizabeth has pointed out. Are all the orcs “bad” we know that some of them aren’t “fighters”. I think if you fill out at least some of their society Elizabeth the rest will come whether that’s the first, second or later thought on how they came to be.
There were orcs (and hools?) in that old fort near Brewersbridge, some in the banast taig, others in the Verrakaien holdings. I look forward to seeing how they all tie together.
Comment by Elizabeth D. — April 26, 2010 @ 9:51 pm
Thank you for the first book in the new series! My view on old/young, good/evil, etc.:
I’ve been occupied with transferring my parents into another nursing home. They are 94 and 92, and both have memory and other problems. My sister and I were a bit glad when they “lost it,” because my parents were no longer putting people down. For the first time in maybe 80 years, they started going to church. They (sometimes) asked for help, instead of pushing it away. But all of this is in terms of a new wisdom based on realizing that the constructs of the intellect cannot cook a meal, or dress, or find the bathroom, and they know it. Most of the time, they are less frustrated with their disabilities than with being away from loved ones (for five minutes; the length of time they remember something). My own middle-aged experience is that I am less able to do things than I was, but I’ve paid a lot of attention over the years and yes, I think that we as a country and as a world can do better, and that there are at least some solutions that should be obvious. In modern (post-1700) terms though, I would say that elders are not rejected because of changes, but because of a pioneer habit of the young leaving to start a new life (throwing away all the old books), which is institutionalized in our Constitutional laws, and also in songs and the Declaration of Independence. “Liberty” is often defined as willful ignorance. I would not have wanted my parents to interfere in my life; they found ways to ridicule any positive choices I made, but there is a place for listening to the advice of elders. I would rather see a society of cooperation.
As to good versus evil: I agree that Arcolin is used to be second in command. He was also used to years in the mercenary company before the Duke re-admitted any religion. For this reason, when he runs into treachery, I don’t think he recognizes all its implications or dangers. He is too open to suggestions, and hasn’t measured strategy, or considered size and scope of the enemy. I only hope that there are survivors (including himself) from his campaign. Dorrin might help, if the Tsain King Mikeli wakes up and realizes that her talents are better spent in another way. I think that Arcolin’s only hope is with Dorrin there… but I am speculating. (Not as wife, but ally.) I think that she is the most talented of the strategists right now… Kieri is still getting his bearings, not just as a ruler, but also in learning what his realm is about. I would also like to see some of the younger points of view; the privates as well as the captains, but I think that this focus now is yet another perspective that is fresh. As to orcs; they could be deformed, damaged, or fallen through former pride or alliances with evil, but I cannot believe that they were an “imitation creation” in the Tolkein view. It does seem that it is possible for them to be bad all the time, though, if bad means that they intend to ruin anything in the world; some creatures just feed on power. Having them in the world brings to mind the cobra versus the mongoose: how the mongoose must have many non-breeding relatives who sacrifice themselves to fight off the snakes, but the balance of power must always be maintained.
I am looking forward to the next volume.
Comment by Mike D — April 30, 2010 @ 5:05 pm
Michael said
The advantages of experience of a 60 or 70 year old would have been much bigger in a population where 20 was close to the average age, and most people were from small rural communities with poor communications to the outside world, would have been much bigger than they are now, when the average person is 40, …=
That’s a standard oops Michael.
“Anyone walking London streets in 1550 would see a much younger population” NOT
Yes the average life expectation at birth was 40 or so BUT the infant mortality was awful so if you made it to adult you had a fair chance of making it to 60 and even 70.
In the same way Lloyd George’s and Bismark’s old age pensions weren’t frauds “because almost no one lived that long” as another confused person said.