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Leaving aside the copy edit chores (still going on), I’m thinking what to do about the difficulties inherent in a tenth book…when it’s considered as an entry point for new readers. The copy editor (and maybe editor–comments are in two colors of pencil, which is often indicative of two persons) feels that something isn’t clear enough for new readers. But that assumes this book–the fifth of Paladin’s Legacy, the tenth overall of Paksworld–can function as an entry point for new readers.
It really can’t, in my opinion. Multi-volume stories, as opposed to true series stories, become increasingly difficult to get into as they go on through the volumes, because much more material accumulates over time. Compared to mystery serials, for instance–among my favorites, Tony Hillerman’s Southwestern ones with Joe Leaphorn and Jim Chee–a multi-volume story is much more complex. Hillerman’s stories run only a few character arcs: Leaphorn’s (as he copes with his wife’s illness and death, and then his new relationship with Louisa), and Chee’s (as he struggles with his incompatible desires to be a shaman and a policeman, and also find a wife and start a family.)
Every book is centered by a mystery, which takes up most of the space, so these character story arcs present only small chunks in any given volume, and a reader who is mystery-based doesn’t need to know them to enjoy a good mystery. They enrich, but do not dominate…these character arcs remain sidebars to the mysteries, and a reader can enter anywhere in the series, reading backwards or forwards, skipping volumes they can’t find, without losing ground.
But a multi-volume novel (or story, if you prefer) is constructed differently: the main part of it is the long character arc (or arcs, in my books) and every volume builds on the preceding one. Motivations arise in early volumes that maybe expressed in later ones–where they make little sense if you haven’t read the earlier ones. There may be more than one logical entry point, but to really grasp what’s going on, the reader needs to know the whole story. Up to a point, a writer can sneak in useful bits of back story to help out new readers, but the point comes when that does not work. There’s too much back story, too much “family history” and “You had to be there.” Trying to put in all the hints and clues and details a new reader might need overloads the story itself, drags it to a creeping pace that (for readers who aren’t new) is boring, disappointing, annoying.
With books, you can be there–you can read the previous books and find out what happened, why this character now acts as he/she does, why A distrusts B, and so on. But you can’t be there without finding and reading the other books. If you start with the last (because, perhaps, you just discovered this writer…something I’ve done often enough) and find yourself confused and even frustrated, the cure–if you like what you’re reading enough–is to find the previous books. Ask other fans for an alternate place to start if “the beginning” is too far back.
By this time in the group, in my opinion, there’s too much going on, too many important characters, too many arcs, too many lines of plot, for someone to pick it up and start with “Winter storms, one after another, cut off the high plateau of Andressat from the lowlands around as Midwinter Feast neared.” I wrote a foreword that I hope will help, but even so…it’s more for those who have read other books in the groups, but not the The Legacy of Gird.
This book is for those who know where Andressat is, and what the Count of Andressat is like, and what Midwinter Feast means, and do not need Guild League and Fox Company and Golden Company and the northern kingdoms and the Elder Races, and magelords and Old Humans all explained to them. It’s for good readers with good memories, because it’s long, complicated, and gives not much quarter. Not that I wasn’t willing, but…time and length are both a factor in all books. The book could have been longer. Much, much longer.
I’m trying to think how to retrofit more into it, if that’s demanded, but I’m hoping it won’t be. Everything a reader needs is already there, in one of the other books (most of it in the new series, some in the older books.) Putting it in again in a way that’s not infodump won’t be easy. Wish me luck. (And I’m going back to work late tonight, still playing catch-up for the days I was sick.)
Comment by Naomi — October 7, 2013 @ 2:38 am
Glad to hear you’re over your sick spell! what I would like to know is if you’ve had time to work on your master map. Maps help when you’re new to an author’s ‘world’, and I’m sure that if someone buys Crown without reading the earlier books, they’ll quickly want to read the earlier ones. good luck with the copy edits, eagerly counting the months to publication
Comment by iphinome — October 7, 2013 @ 3:29 am
Best of luck your ladyship.
Comment by Richard — October 7, 2013 @ 3:45 am
Elizabeth, I’d say stick to your guns and keep Crown as the book you‘d like to read.
Infodump has its place, and that place is here on the website (even though not everyone in the world has internet). The foreword sounds like a good idea, not just to tell those who haven’t read the Gird books what is going on, but to tell those who have why some details have to be told differently now.
You blogged last spring about discovering when (and where) Crown begins, and now you’ve revealed it – no apology needed now the back cover blurbs are out – you’ve surprised me again, but of course you are right again.
By the way, @Hawkman (are you a recent entrant?), if you should read this, did you spot my very (over two months) belated reply (in http://www.paksworld.com/blog/?p=1868#comments #88) to your query #62? The “King Mikeli” and “Prince Mikeli” whom Andressat’s scribe mentions on the same page near the end of Limits are indeed two different people. The first is the character who has been in the last five (in Paksworld chronology) books, whom Count Andressat met two books previously. The second was an author many hundreds of years in the Paksworld past, the discovery of whose history prompted Count Andressat to end up meeting King Mikeli.
Comment by Rob — October 7, 2013 @ 9:41 am
For my greedy side, you could tell the Agent and Editor that in order to accomidating their request will force you to split this one book into two books information required to get new readers caught up.
From my imagination, this should illicit several different reactions:
Editor: “Oh no!”
Agent: “We can make this work.”
ME: “YES, YES, YES! (Include fanboy cheering here!)”
🙂
Comment by Elentarien — October 7, 2013 @ 11:11 am
Ergh. I have to agree. A multi-volume story such as the one you’re telling, or like the Vatta books (which I am just finishing since I am still waiting on this last book here. . .lol)are definitely different from ‘normal’ series. Normal series, each book contains its own story – and these books. . .don’t.
As a reader – honestly, I don’t think it should be considered for you to tweak that sort of thing at all. If I hit a book late in a series and realize its NOT its own story, I am likely to go back and find the earlier books. Sure, I have to put this book down for awhile, but its there when I get the others and read up to that point. The only ‘problems’ that arise then is 1. If you are getting the books from a local library – they have such a terrible habit of having books 2-4-5 and missing the key books to get you in. 😛 (Thats what happened to me with the Vatta and Serrano books, which is why I’m only just reading them.)
2. If the books are not clearly labled that they are X-book in a series and you sit down to read, thinking its a single book, only to be confused. Tell them to print properly so its clear that this is book 5 of this series. 🙂
But yeah, I agree, the last book of a series should not be the place for an info dump. Its not only boring to the readers who have read from the start, its usually MORE confusing to a reader than to just realize they apparently came in during the middle of the story.
I mean – they don’t ask movies to do that. If someone walks in in the middle of a movie, they don’t say ‘put an info dump here’ so people just sitting down can catch up. No, the viewer is supposed to realize they came in in the middle and either muddle through to the end or rewind the movie and start from the beginning like everyone else did. The movies that are multi-movie also don’t contain ‘catchups’. They just start the story and if you want to know the earlier bits, you go watch the earlier ones later.
I suppose there is always the ‘Pre-chapter’ that can do the catch up run. You know the space between the forward and Chapter One. I have seen ‘catchup’ chapters there. Though, to be honest, I have never bothered to read one. Either I’ve read the series from the start, or I realize if there’s that much catch up to do – I’d really rather just go read it.
Comment by Jonathan Schor — October 7, 2013 @ 12:24 pm
I can understand the difficulty – the publisher, of course, wants a book to sell to new readers as well as to continuing readers. It can be a fine balancing act.
I like the idea of splitting the final volume into two books but as you have to do the work, whatever you and your publisher are comfortable with.
Comment by GinnyW — October 7, 2013 @ 1:30 pm
I can see the editor/publishers point. They want this book to appeal to a wider audience than just us fans are waiting for it to appear.
Elizabeth, I do think though that you are right to insist that this book is not really an entry point. If the threads are going to come together, you need every word to roll along toward the resolution.
I have picked up any number of series from the middle or the end. As a reader, I can deal with not grasping the big picture, if the characters and/or the action in the first couple of pages engages my attention. The first sentence caught mine – expect isolation to cause a problem with a festival. As long as that episode plays out, I will keep reading. If it hooks into the next episode I will keep reading. And so on to the end of the book.
The point is that the action and characters in the book engage each step of the way. Yes, a reader who jumps in at the end will miss a lot of the overall story arc until he or she gets to read the whole package, but I have found these books engaging at each step, and I suspect others will as well.
Elentarion makes a very good point about clearly labeling it as book 5 of the series. For Limits, “this is the fourth book” is in the first line of the inside cover blurb.
Rob and Jonathan: I want more books, but I REALLY do not want to wait any longer to find out about the nature of that regalia. I would rather have another side story, as Surrender None is a side story to the Paks books. It stands on its own as a story.
Comment by elizabeth — October 7, 2013 @ 2:01 pm
It’s not going to morph into two books, because it’s done, it’s on the schedule, and the world has seen its cover. So no worries about that.
I think the Author’s Note up front will provide enough information for emergency rations, so to speak.
I do have work to do in a few places where the CE is right that it reads “rough” (my term) but the CE’s fix won’t work.
Comment by Dawn Roseberry — October 7, 2013 @ 8:20 pm
I am glad that you are taking the stance that new readers should start at book one. I love finding out that the interesting book in the New Books section is actually the third or fourth or fifth book, because it means I have a good long read ahead of me.
I agree with #5, the books really need to be numbered in some way. That is something the publisher needs to do. It is more efficient than rewriting for the new-to-Paksworld reader.
The introductory pre-chapter so-here’s-what’s-gone-on-in-the-previous-books is a help for those of us who enjoy a summary.
Another thought…what about an in-depth index at the end of the book, a la LOTR? Listed by People names, Place names, Timeline, or Shoe size. You already have most of it online. If the publisher screams about how many pages it would take up, simply explain that it would take up exactly the same amount of space if it had to be worked into the story.
Comment by LarryP — October 7, 2013 @ 9:16 pm
When I find a new series I also hunt down the earlier books and read from the start all the way though the book I found and carry on form there.
Carry on telling good stories.
Comment by jjmcgaffey — October 8, 2013 @ 12:36 am
I just got Limits of Power from the library – got about halfway through and realized I wasn’t fully informed about the story. I have _read_ the first three, but only once or twice each – well, OK, Oath three times. So I started again with Oath, and am now 2/3rds through Echoes and almost ready to restart Limits. I could have read Limits and enjoyed it, but I knew that I was missing good bits through not having recently read Echoes and back…so I went back and reread.
All of which is to say – I agree that the last book (or even second-last) in a 5 or 10-book series is not the place to repeat basic world-building info. There are people who could read Limits or Crown and then go read the others – not me, I need my series in order – but what those books should be to a new reader is hooks. “These things are happening because of something you don’t know about – go find out!”
Comment by Linda — October 8, 2013 @ 3:52 am
Yup, I like the idea of a clear warning that this is the fifth part of a wonderfully long, long story. If you read our comments, when we are waiting for new volumes to appear, it is clear that most of us re-read all the books just before a new one comes out. Your books are so well constructed that it’s all “meat”. Nothing is there just for “flash.”
I also appreciate the website/blog as a place to pick up facts which have fallen through my “cognitive net.” There are authors whose work I would enjoy a lot more if there were a handy way to deepen my understanding. To me it’s like being a part of a book group. It does me good to be able to read other folks reactions, questions, guesses. It’s like going on a wildlife viewing trek with really good observers who whisper “look, under the roots of the white pine next to the three boulders, there’s a weasel.”
Comment by Richard — October 8, 2013 @ 10:20 am
A hypothetical example: Arvid arrives in a small town where the Marshal says, “By the way, Ser Burin, did you meet on the road, or hear news of, a fellow called Arvid Semminson? He badly needs hanging and I’ve had warning he could be coming this way.”
If a new reader does not get all the nuances of how Gird’s Marshals differ from town marshals in westerns, and why some want to hang Semminson but others do not, that is one thing. If a new reader twigs that the POV’s full name is Ser (a minor honorific) Arvid Burin, but not that he is Semminson under an alias so in danger, then um? (might realise that further on). Author’s call. But if a new reader (or the copy editor) stops in confusion, looking all round the scene for who and where is this other character Burin the Marshal is addressing, then I see how that could be considered a problem.
You people with Kindles (or other e-formats) – do these devices not have the power to instantly generate a Proper Names index? Shame! (OK, distinguishing people from places might be beyond computer software, or even connecting up and cross-referencing first to family names).
The UK editions do have a large 1 (or 2 or 3 ..) at the top of the spine, beneath a small-enough-typeface-to-fit-across-in-one-line “PALADIN’S LEGACY”.
Comment by elizabeth — October 8, 2013 @ 11:14 am
One of the gnarly bits I’m working on concerns stuff that is “in plain” in Liar’s Oath, in “coded” form in Divided Allegiance (all that the expedition knows is what they can infer from what’s left in Luap’s Stronghold), and hinted and discussed in previous books in this group, and finally erupts again in Crown of Renewal.
It’s going to answer some questions readers have asked for years–but it can’t answer newbie questions when some of the bits first appear without ruining the storyline for everyone else. No, I can’t stop the story to explain about the split between Gird and Luap, what happened to the colony, how the sleepers got there, and so on, in the middle of what’s happening…or anywhere else in Crown, for that matter. For one thing, the POV characters also do not know some of it–so they can’t be thinking it or talking about it in those terms. They don’t know Big Important Bit A until they’re faced with it…it surprises them. Then and only then other things they’ve heard make sense to them. If the Author’s Note isn’t enough, then…go read Liar’s Oath, the author mutters. Or talk to people who have.
I don’t think there are any bad bumps in the road for those who’ve read the previous books–and even the information in the current books is enough to keep readers on track in the gnarly bits I’m talking about here, especially with the Author’s Note. Readers should know, from what these books have said, that the iynisin/kuaknomi have been around a long time, though not recently in obvious ways until they show up. Readers of the Deed should have caught on that the “evil elf lord” in the banast taig was in fact one such, or nearly so (an elf *almost* over the edge, perhaps.) Arian’s grandfather elf has told people about iynisin coming out of the rocks in Kolobia. So the scene is set, for perceptive readers (like you people, and thank you for it!)
My difficulty (one of them) is deciding which queries comments arise from having a very concrete-thinking CE, for whom *nothing* is understood. (Adding a “the” to “Next morning” as if readers needed that “the” and perhaps thought it was some other next morning…) Or if there’s a genuine kink in the story-logic that would affect someone who started with Limits of Power.
Comment by Caryn — October 8, 2013 @ 2:03 pm
George RR Martin’s books don’t summarize the earlier ones, do they? I haven’t read them but from what I’ve gathered I don’t see how they could. Let new readers read the earlier books. I rather envy them the discovery.
And that’s my vote.
Comment by Kathy Kelm — October 8, 2013 @ 3:55 pm
I’m in favor of one extra page at the beginning of the book saying something like –
This is the X book in this series. I recommend you read them in order, for the full experience.
Then list the books in the order you recommend reading them…
Comment by Richard — October 9, 2013 @ 2:47 am
One thing plenty of people in the story do know is what the iynisin close to Luap’s Stronghold did to Paks. I don’t immediately recall any full-on reference by which a reader who started at OoF and never got back to DA could pick that up. Her two-paragraph biog in the front pages of OoF is the about the only clue that there is something to pick up.
Comment by GinnyW — October 9, 2013 @ 6:53 am
Elizabeth, (#14) You do need to address the relationship between Surrender None/Liar’s Oath and this series somehow, so that relatively new readers know that the books are out there and relevant to this story arc. So they need to be brought into the same introduction/forward that lets us know that Paladin’s Legacy is a sequel to the Deed of Paksenarrion series. Not in the story itself.
In Limits, Arvid encountered Luap and his writings as part of the scribal work that he was doing for the Marshal General (pages 371-372 American edition). Apparently, he was copying or reading both the records of the expedition to Kolobia, and some of the traditional histories of the Fellowship of Gird. Also Andressat’s scribe finds that document document about the Sier of Grahlin (pages 458-461 American edition).
If something specific needs to be said to make the story flow, you have hooks to hang it on. Only you can judge. We appreciate the care you take over the edits, however it comes out in the end.
Comment by GinnyW — October 9, 2013 @ 6:54 am
I need a copy editor. Document should only appear once.
Comment by elizabeth — October 9, 2013 @ 8:17 am
The Author’s Note does cover these points, GinnyW. That’s one reason I found the queries/demands in one particular section of the book both confusing and annoying. (The CE had the Author’s Note in the ms. he was given.)
And there’s the website. And here. (Off topic, sort of: I had a snarky email from someone some months back scolding me for not pushing information at the writer in exactly the way the writer wanted–explaining that the writer had no time to visit authors’ websites, or publisher sites, or follow them on Twitter to find out what was happening, and therefore I (and anyone else the writer wanted to read, I guess) should provide that information direct to the writer’s computer, without any query or effort on the writer’s part. I found that writer’s belief that this writer–the one writing this–had unlimited leisure in which to save that writer a little effort…annoying.)
Comment by Jonathan Schor — October 9, 2013 @ 9:27 am
I wonder if others have noted this phenomenon. Whenever I go into a bookstore I always look to see what books from my favorite authors are on the shelves.
Often, the current release is there and perhaps one or two previous books.
But there have been some authors series I have not started because I could not find the first book. I realize there is Amazon, but the problem remains.
This blends in with the problem of having the fifth book standing alone.
I have no real solution, just a recognition that writing can be a lot more complicated behind the scenes.
Comment by Mike D — October 9, 2013 @ 3:18 pm
I suspect you already putting in reminders of what went before.
Thus in Limits, ch 44, “The Duke of Immer reviewed …” you mention how he got to his current position and even Siniava’s War.
I think that when a character was from /Deed/ you should check that a reminder is present eg Arcolin taking over Phenlan’s domain.
New characters like Prince Camwyn and Dragon need a little more.
Another way of putting this suggestion would be to assume that some readers will have missed or forgotten one of the four preceding books.
I think this will cover the ground your editor(s) has in mind but in a light rather than a heavy fashion.
Comment by GinnyW — October 9, 2013 @ 4:42 pm
Elizabeth,
I am glad the reference is there, and not at all surprised. You referred all of us to those books back in May? June? So this issue has been with you a long time.
This thread has sparked another issue for me, that has come up intermittently. The deep history influences the present, partly by setting off chains of events, but also by the way people in the present understand their link in the chain. In history, as in character, some people conceal as much as they reveal. The result is that the way a particular originating event is related, and the chain of events that set it off can come into collision.
A totally non-Paksworld example of this might be the way the crucifixion story is told in the New Testament gospels, and the chain of anti-Semitic responses to it in Eastern Europe leading to concentration camps.
The point is that the story of Gird and Luap that happened “then” is not what will drive the actions of people in Limits or Crown. It is the collision of consequences with their own idea of the backstory. (How could a Marshal kill a child?)
So I started thinking about the ways that information is “discovered” that causes people to reexamine their “knowledge” of history. Artifacts are dug up. Someone new to the area or from a marginal group tells a different story (the king of Pargun?). Something happens that “doesn’t fit” and people search for an explanation in dusty archives. In Paksworld, but unfortunately not in ours, someone can pry the story out of an elf or dwarf or gnome that has a much longer life span. But that is tricky too, a long life is not omniscience, and not a defense against self-deception either.
As I think on it, the events of Paladin’s Legacy involve a lot of discovery that things aren’t quite what the characters thought they were. So far, you have done a really great job of representing both misunderstanding and discovery without infodump or long informational asides. I trust your instincts on this issue as well.
Comment by Karen — October 10, 2013 @ 7:58 am
I can’t help but wonder if perhaps your copy editor has been watching too much television, of the sort that begins each episode with a “previously on _______” video montage to remind viewers of what has happened in previous episodes.
Such story-telling always annoys me both because it assumes that I won’t be able to follow what’s going on within the context of the story itself (which has never happened to me with any of your books!), but also because it just bogs me down with stuff I already know and gives me an entirely new set of questions regarding how what I’m being reminded has happened is supposed to make me feel about the new events in the story.
I can see great value in peoples suggestions that you note all of the stories in the Paksworld universe (including the wonderful “Those Who Walk in Darkness”) in the order in which you think they are best read, and would heartily welcome an index with character names and references to the book in which they were introduced, but so long as you feel you are telling the story you want to tell, I know I, for one, will be reading the story I want to read!
Comment by Wreno — October 10, 2013 @ 1:48 pm
I, as a teen new to Sci Fi started with Asimov’s Second Foundation – the second in the trilogy. I don’t recall much, if any, backstory/handholding. Lost and confsed? Yep. Made me want/need to read the rest of the series.
My .02 – gentle, reminder, allusions may be appropriate as memory joggers, as this a massive, complex, work. But rehashing old history to bring newbs totally up to speed can have the adverse effect of alienating loyal readers (has been known to frustrate me with some authors – I keep wondering when the “new” story will begin.
I, for one, trust your judgment to use as much or little backstory as you feel appropriate. If less gets me more new material faster – wonderful.
Comment by Charles S — October 10, 2013 @ 8:28 pm
I think we trust your judgement by now.
Your characters keep wanting to tell their story. Let them!
Thanks!
Comment by Jim Marriner — October 11, 2013 @ 9:23 am
I have to agree with you, as far along in the timeline as you are, it just does not work well to have a new reader jump in now. They will of course but they will slightly behind those of us who consider Paks, Kieri, Dorrin and Arvid close friends.
As a soldier (now retired after 21 years), your books have went with me on 5 deployments now to Iraq, Bosnia and Afghanistan. I wouldn’t even consider going overseas without them.
Comment by ElizabethD — October 11, 2013 @ 1:33 pm
I am away from computer… but I don’t mind spoilers if I happen to read / see a later part of a series. It’s my bad, not the author’s. I liked the first book in Zelazny’s Amber series because it had the sense of coming in at the middle.
Alas, in my own life, Kris is gone. I’m so grateful that he could meet you, and for your kindness. And strangely, I’ve remarried: another programmer, and inventor of games: the character-driven “Cosmic Encounter.” So maybe I’ll post as Elizabeth Horn; it would be less confusing. I feel that everybody, in some ways, comes in in the middle of other people’s stories. It is strange and confusing, but is much better than not meeting new people.
Comment by elizabeth — October 11, 2013 @ 1:39 pm
Jim: Thank you. For all of it.
GinnyW: Crown doesn’t answer all the questions (even all of MY questions, which is how I know I’ll write more in this universe at some point.) And I’m delighted to find that the tight curves the book took several times (surprising its writer) also sent some speculations astray. (For those gaming the writer’s mind…if you’re right, it’s by accident. I think.)
Charles S: Thanks for the vote of confidence
Wreno: I added to the Author’s Note an explicit statement that Crown is not an entry point for first-time-in-this-world readers; they should start with Oath of Fealty.
Karen: I do think the recapping that TV programs do may be part of reason for the questions, and also the habit of true serials (independent stories with same characters) of recapping some of the main character’s backstory. I was reading a Sue Grafton mystery on the train out of NYC, and noticed how she wove in Kinsey’s simple backstory (sort of update from previous book) although there was more deep backstory later–but the actual mystery involved her family this time.
Richard: You’re being incredibly perceptive again. Sometimes you bring up things I hadn’t thought through and then I have to think through them to find out if you’re right or not. Which is a lot of fun for a writer, let me tell you.
Niffle: Alas, the way publishing works it is not possible for me to insist that an entire set be kept in print, let alone stocked in bookstores and distributors. Every entity along the way makes its own (often ridiculous to our eyes) rules on when and how to have copies available. However, on the good side, with electronic publishing it costs less to keep older books in “print” in e-format, and there’s less likelihood of a volume or two dropping out forever. If you want paper copies, but hate to wait between books, then the safest thing to do is buy them as they come out, stick them in a sealed box, and read them when you’ve got the last one in hand. I will certainly let people know when a new one is about to emerge into print.
Gotta run now and send the copy edits back. Off to the county seat.
Comment by Richard — October 12, 2013 @ 6:54 am
Karen (#24): the best such index is one you make yourself. You’ll notice a lot along the way as you make it.
My local bookstore (UK) has copies of Limits and the Deed, as does the one in one nearby city I sometimes visit; but the other such city has an even larger Waterstones branch and a large independent; last month as I recall one of the two had all the current series out on the shelf. I cannot remember if the Gird-Luap omnibus is there too.
Comment by elizabeth — October 12, 2013 @ 12:35 pm
It is good to see you back, but condolences on losing Kris. I am so glad I had a chance to meet him. I am also glad you have found someone else to love and be loved by. Use whichever name you wish, but keep in mind that I won’t make the connection until someone beats it into my head about a dozen times.
Comment by Richard — October 14, 2013 @ 5:22 am
Elizabeth (D) Horn: condolances. And congratulations. Here’s wishing you many years of happiness.
Comment by GinnyW — October 16, 2013 @ 6:17 am
Elizabeth (D) Horn: Welcome back. I had been concerned when you dropped out of the thread with so many life issues hanging. It seems the concern was needed. Condolances from me as well, and congratulations on the new marraige. Best wishes for peace and stability after all the life changes. I look forward to seeing your comments again.