SpoilerSpace: No Peeking!

Posted: March 24th, 2011 under Kings of the North, Spoiler Space.
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This topic is for spoilersAll spoilers go here. Comments to this topic may contain spoilers.   Comments to other topics may not contain spoilers and will be deleted if they do.  If you do not want any spoilers,  do not look at comments to this topic.  They are likely to be brimful of spoilers.

I opened the SpoilerSpace playroom early because someone erred and I realize it’s really hard for many people to know if what they said was a spoiler.   And what seemed like a spoiler to someone waiting for their copy to arrive or their library to get an acquisition cataloged may not seem like a spoiler at all to the person who’s just finished the book.   When in doubt…put it here.

I have a bunch of writing-business chores to do ASAP,  so I’m trusting you to play nicely in the SpoilerSpace sandbox.   As I have time, I will be by to answer questions–unless the answers would be spoilers for the next books.


  • Comment by elizabeth — April 1, 2011 @ 6:57 am


    This area was very rural when we moved here, and had been late to get a paved road out (WWII or after). I’m not a linguist, so I didn’t make a note of all the unusual words and usages (should have anyway) but here are a couple more: “stob” as a use for any post, though “post” was also used. In south Texas, we had “stob” but it was for a broken off branch or sapling that stuck up or out and was a hazard. “Leaders” for muscles, as in “My leaders is weak.”

  • Comment by Daniel Glover — April 1, 2011 @ 9:08 am


    Thought of another one overnight. So now we’ve about Camwyn’s Claw. Was Camwyn even human or just a dragon in it’s polymorphed state? Or, did Camwyn, like the statement by the Lady about the Kuakkgani grafting an arm on a tree? Will we hear more about these legends now with a dragon on stage?

    Also wondering about the relationship between Gnomes and Dragons if both are so wedded to law and judgment. Probably will play a big role in resolving what’s happening in Aarenis since they likely will have to move en masse through the gnome princedoms when coming over (or through?) the mountains and hills.


  • Comment by Margaret — April 1, 2011 @ 10:29 am


    Interesting that Paks got called to the south when her presence in Fin Panir would have made some sort of impact on the whole Arvid and the stolen necklace incident. So the gods who lead her must not have felt that needed her influence.

    And I wonder if she is called “South” to Aarenis or just south of where she is in the North. On the map, I don’t see much except a couple of circles on the Southern Trade Route and I don’t remember if there are any specific placed tied to those circles.

    If she is indeed being called to Aarenis, would she have to go all the way back to the pass leading to Valdaire? Maybe she is heading for the Southern Waste, through some unknown pass. What’s in the Southern Waste? Maybe the place where the red horse came from… is something threatening the people who raise the Paladin horses??

    It is so fun to know that Much will be revealed in future books and speculation will be confirmed , or not!

  • Comment by genko — April 1, 2011 @ 10:54 am


    I know the gnomes are “perishing fair,” and very strict about law and judgment. I didn’t get the same sense of the dwarves. Not that they are lawless, but that they aren’t as identified with it, maybe.

  • Comment by elizabeth — April 1, 2011 @ 11:11 am


    Genko, I’ve said before (can’t recall where, maybe not in this blog) that my concept of the gnomes and the dwarves, and the differences between them, grew out of a book by Dr. F.S. Lear at Rice University, “Treason in Roman and Germanic Law.” The relationship of person to law was very different in the two, and the translations of the barbarian codes (I have read two, both translated by another Rice history professor, Dr. K.F. Drew, “The Lombard Laws” and “The Burgundian Code”) show the uneasy relationship between them, when the barbarians tried to write laws using a Roman format. (The latter two books, and some other books on medieval law, were integral to the Gird books, as Gird tried to come up with a legal code that was fair for all.)

    The dwarves are Germanic; the gnomes are Roman. Germanic tribes were much more “personal”–loyalty was to a person, not a code of law. Although during the Empire, the cult of personality about emperors prevailed ultimately, there was still a deepseated respect for the law itself…and that law was, at least in part, made by the senate and people of Rome. For the gnomes, it has become a religious law (think of the Calvinist cities early in the Reformation, or the Pilgrim Fathers) and thus even more rigid, as handed down by deity.

  • Comment by Rachel — April 1, 2011 @ 12:33 pm


    The gnomes’ law was handed down by deity? Interesting…I now want to go back and reread the section where Gird is living with the gnomes.

    I may have a very faulty memory (especially since I’m at work and can’t check my books), but don’t the gnomes and the dwarves mainly worship the same deity, Sertig (sp?) the Maker? So do the dwarves also have religious law of the same nature or is it different? Or have the gnomes turned their law into religious law? Hmmm…much to reread and look forward to!

    Speaking of questions of the law, you might enjoy this blog http://lawandthemultiverse.com/. It’s a couple lawyers talking about how the law applies to superheros. It’s quite interesting and informative; they’re covered topics ranging from ethics to evidence to authority to arrest to child labor laws (those dang sidekicks).

  • Comment by elizabeth — April 1, 2011 @ 1:21 pm


    Dwarves worship Sertig chiefly. Sertig “hammered out the world on his anvil.” Gnomes worship the One Lord, the Lawgiver, who made the law by which all things exist. Arranha, in one of his talks with Gird (and others since) speculated that all these creator gods might actually be just one: the Singer, the Namer, the Maker, the Lawgiver. Each race and culture has seen the same truth from a different angle, in other words…that was Arranha’s view (and the reason he was considered a heretic worthy of being tortured and killed.) The gnomes believe that the Lord gave the Law and it is immutable and there to be learned and obeyed. Naturally, the Law did not cover every instance, so each gnome community has someone to interpret the law as it applies to right now, right here. That’s the Prince. The Prince’s word is taken as Law, as true speaking on the basis of divine Law and inspiration. A gnome prince may have advisors in the Law, but the prince’s word, once given, is law.

    Dwarves have nothing equivalent. Elves have nothing equivalent. Some humans have something pretty close to equivalent. Dwarf kings expect to be obeyed, yes…but if enough of their tribe disagrees, they’re demoted (usually fatally, but not always.) They do believe some things absolutely (Sertig made the world on his anvil, dammit, not some silly singing spirit…or at least Sertig made rock, that undergirds all, and that’s what really matters…) but not a regularized code like the gnomes.

  • Comment by Rachel — April 1, 2011 @ 4:56 pm


    Thanks for clarifying Elizabeth! It’s coming back to me now. It’s been too long since I’ve read Legacy of Gird.

  • Comment by boballab — April 2, 2011 @ 12:23 am



    According to dictionary.com the reason you heard the word “bait” used as it was in south Texas, is thus:
    “5. South Midland and Southern U.S.
    a. a large or sufficient quantity or amount: He fetched a good bait of wood.
    b. an excessive quantity or amount.”

    So it is a term that is has been in use there historically. Also one of the definitions for the word as a verb is:
    “13. to feed and water (a horse or other animal), especially during a journey.”

    Merriam Webster also has that definition:
    “4: to give food and drink to (an animal) especially on the road”

  • Comment by elizabeth — April 2, 2011 @ 8:47 am


    Actually, I never heard “bait” in south Texas–it’s not much like “the South”–but here in central Texas, where it is definitely full of Southern influences. Generally, if the oldsters in a place use the term, that’s proof that it’s been used there historically–talking to the 80+ year olds when we moved here over 30 years ago, they learned their vocabulary for rural things before they were exposed to radio or even newspapers.

  • Comment by Chae — April 3, 2011 @ 8:23 am


    Just finished reading. And now I have enormous crick in my neck because over last 200 pages or so, I got so absorbed in the story, my reading posture went to hell, and I was hunched over with neck craned way down… Ah but such is the price…

    A great book. I don’t know if it’s a compliment to call a high fantasy with elves and dwarves and now a dragon realistic and believable, but trust me, I mean it as such. People are real in this book, and the series as a whole, reaching back to Pak’s story. Everyone has real, believble motivation and incentives and behave as real people would, including the real foibles and errors that come as results despite our best intentions. In short, no one is perfect, not even the Lady. But separates this from others is that the Lady’s flaws are driven by external pressures and forces, and do not appear gratuitous, such as when a lesser author would ostentatiously shoehorn a flaw to attempt to make the whole more believable. When she sits in judgment of others’ efforts, she is cool and wise as befits her years and experience. Yet she falls short when the problems are hers, as any of us would. I have to admit I was taken back by Kieri’s doubts early on in the book, as the Paks series portrayed her as nearly flawless (aside from a short scene at Halveric’s steading) and good.

    Magic was hard to get used to in the beginning. Paks series had a dearth of magic, at least in the beginning. It made the seige scene (Sibli?) more epic when the light flared up and made incredulous awe of Paks’ friends over her ‘crossing the blades with Liart’s priest more real. But I suppose there was always magic in the world. But as Paks’ being the primary POV, and her naviete and inexperience being what they are, it makes perfect sense that presence of magic would become more visible as she grew in experience and power.

    So much more I want to say but it’s hard pecking on this fancy tablet. Anyway, best news I had was that this is projected as 5 book series. For some reason, I thought it would be 3 like Paks…

  • Comment by elizabeth — April 3, 2011 @ 7:54 pm


    Chae: Thank you! And, um, I thought it was going to be three books like Paks. That was in fact the contract. I should have thought (but didn’t) that the Paksworld books ran long even with a single viewpoint, and including more major viewpoints would require more space and thus more volumes. Hence…the other two. Also–I find color vision fascinating, esp. research that’s been done on animal vision (birds can see into the ultraviolet. They see colors for which we have no names, only wavelengths.)

    David: I don’t know what the error rate is on the books…I suspect that Kings and Oath are close, but the kind of error makes a difference in perception, probably to both the writer and readers. Here is the page for appearances.

    Kristine: Thanks! Norway is a beautiful country–enjoyed my one visit there.

  • Comment by Jill — April 3, 2011 @ 9:02 pm


    I’m only about 2/3 of the way through listening to the audiobook version (and enjoying immensely) so i am mostly avoiding spoilers… but i had to just pop in to say (at the risk of sounding like a 12 year old boy) that you have coined my new favorite expletive: “Holy Falk and Gird!” Just say it out loud and quickly and you’ll find just how delightful it is! I almost choked when the narrator got to this line. Hee hee!

    Also for the record… i prefer the way she pronounces things in Kings vs. the narrator for Oath. But just out of curiosity, does Tir rhyme with “here” or with “cur”?

  • Comment by elizabeth — April 3, 2011 @ 9:15 pm


    Glad you’re liking it, Jill. In my mind, Tir rhymes with “here”. When I started writing in this universe, I don’t think there were many (any?) audiobooks other than those made especially for the blind. So I spelled things the way I heard them. I’m sure it is distracting when the narrator changes between books (I am visual for words and so don’t listen to audiobooks; I’m auditory for music and a bad sight-reader but very good at learning by ear and transposing.)

    Terri: I announce book signings on my main website (often on the front page, but certainly here) when I have them. Right now I don’t–some phone calls haven’t been returned, so I’ll have to try again.

  • Comment by genko — April 4, 2011 @ 5:40 pm


    Pronunciation is always tricky with unfamiliar names. I’m very auditory, and “hear” the words and names. I suspect there’s even a tone of voice in there in my mind as I read. I definitely heard “Tir” as rhyming with “here.” You said “Kieri” was like “KEER-ee,” but I’ve always heard it as “kee-AIR-ee.” As for “Aare,” I’ve had a lot of trouble with that. I hear it as “aye-ARE-eh,” which probably doesn’t make sense, and definitely doesn’t work all that well in determining how to pronounce “Aarenis.” That one goes back and forth in my mind.

    I had similar trouble with another series. When MZB’s husband spoke at a con I was at and pronounced “laran” as LAIR-un, I was shocked and disappointed. Not the way I had been hearing it at all (la-RAHN). After that, I found myself hearing both pronunciations as I read, and it was kind of distracting. Don’t know whether it would be better to put some sort of pronunciation key in or to let us all just make up the pronunciation as we wish.

  • Comment by RichardB — April 4, 2011 @ 5:57 pm


    I too heard “Kieri” as “kee-AIR-ee”, and was never quite sure which syllable of “Phelan” to stress, defaulting to the first.

    “Aare” and “Aarenis” likewise go back and forth in my mind, but I tend to come back to “AIR-uh” (the last syllable being a schwa) and “AIR-en-is”.

    Just realised as I type this that I don’t recall ever seeing any accents or diacritics at all. Is that deliberate?

  • Comment by RichardB — April 4, 2011 @ 6:00 pm


    FWIW I noticed nothing in the way of typos etc in the UK paperback edition, and as a trained proof-reader I’m sensitive to such.

    I expect the mere act of posting this will cause one or two to be called out! 😉

  • Comment by elizabeth — April 4, 2011 @ 11:28 pm


    You should see an acute accent in Verella, Prealith, and Bannerlith (can’t put it in, in comments, or I don’t know how.) Other than that I’ve avoided them, because I find anything but an acute accent (and many of them) too connected to specific languages here and now–when I see them in not-this-world fantasies, they throw me out of it a little.

    And I chose to leave pronunciation to readers (but maybe shouldn’t have?) Kieri to me is a short double-long-e sound: Kee-eerie, with a slight emphasis on the second “ee”. Aare: Aah-reh or Aahh-ruh. Yes, I think a schwa. Aarenis: Ahr-en-ees, accent on the last syllable, r is not rolled.

    I once had someone ask me how to pronounce Gird. That one surprised me. It’s an actual word, that I thought a lot of people knew, and thus would be easy.

    Genko, it’s interesting what you said about MZB’s “laran” because I read it with a still different sound: “LAH-rahn”

  • Comment by Richard — April 5, 2011 @ 1:28 pm


    (111) Chae, I’m sure many of us came into this series with preconceptions about ruling elf-Ladies (we all know from where) – ready to be exploited by a master storyteller. To our pleasure.

  • Comment by Nay — April 5, 2011 @ 11:07 pm


    To be honest, I really loved the parts where we saw more of Arvid. He was one character I’d always wanted to hear from. And also the whole ‘Blind Archer’ tale from Stammel was intriguing. If minor. But I like minor details that you catch at the peripheral vision-remember the theif that went through the Red Fox stealing left shoes in the Deed?

    I always pronounced Kieri Kee-eh-ree and Aare and Aarenis Ah-ray and Ah-ray-nihs. I suppose it depends on the reader if you leave it up to their perception-but you wouldn’t beleive how many people have walked up to me and said “What’s the Deed of Paksenarrion” Which is a perfectly fine question-except no one knows how to pronounce Paksenarrion’s name. I always say Pahk-sehn-air-reeon. As for Phelan, it has been a subject of many arguments (if playful) with my father. He says Phay-lahn. I say Phee-lahn.

    Lesson learned-pronunciation is a fickle thing. But the books were great due to a master storyteller telling a story that was engineered to be great to start with.

  • Comment by Margaret Middleton — April 10, 2011 @ 2:16 pm


    Looping back to Moira’s comment of March 25:

    She keeps her amazing, fantastic, plots coherent by using analog-models, of course.

  • Comment by Evertt — April 11, 2011 @ 2:07 pm


    I didn’t get a print copy of Kings, but purchased it from audible.com The only thing that has been bugging me and no one else to voice it to that would understand (until now) is this: In Kings the narrator keeps referring to the village of Brewers Bridge as Brewster’s Bridge. At first I thought it was a typo or misread by the narrator, but it is referred to as Brewster’s Bridge all through the audiobook.

  • Comment by elizabeth — April 11, 2011 @ 11:34 pm


    Evertt: Oh, DEAR. See, I can’t listen to audiobooks (anyone’s audio books) so I didn’t know that. That’s just inaccurate reading. There is no “t” in it. Do complain to Audible.com (like all publishers, audio publishers pay more attention to customer complaints that writer complaints, because customers supply the money.)

  • Comment by Evertt — April 20, 2011 @ 10:50 am


    Elizabeth, thanks for the response. I did contact audible on this. I am curious about one other thing but it doesn’t involve Kings… In Oath of Fealty. When Stammel is talking to Arcolin about Koryn being one of the caravan guards they’re returning to Vonja he mentions the stripes on his back that was given to him back in Pak’s training. He says Capt. Sejek used the “sea-ink” dye. Wasn’t it Capt. Vallichi who had Korryn whipped? This may be another error on audible.com’s part, or I may be off my rocker but I just had to ask.

  • Comment by Christina — April 21, 2011 @ 10:19 am


    Hi Elizabeth!!! Thank you so much for such a great read!!!!

    Kings was fantastic, wonderful, and intricately woven. I loved the story between Arian and Kieri. It was lovely. I just have a quick question: Is the woman shown in the background on the cover of the book Arian???

  • Comment by elizabeth — April 21, 2011 @ 11:40 am


    Christina: I don’t know. They don’t tell me things like that (G). My husband thinks it’s Kieri’s sister’s spirit. Or his mother. Or maybe Arian. Or maybe just an indication that he’s being pushed to think about eligible women and it’s a generic “possible bride.”

  • Comment by patrick — April 21, 2011 @ 2:49 pm


    To save our good author some research time and answer Evertt’s question about Koryn’s original punishment, in the Deed of Paksenarrion, Paks was in no shape or position at the time to pay close attention to who ordered what while Stammel was. Captain Sejek was in temporary charge at the time the incident occurred because Captain Valichi was away. Captain Valichi was in charge of the training company and of the punishment. Either could have supplied/ordered the “sea-ink”. I’d trust that Stammel to remember correctly. 🙂

  • Comment by elizabeth — April 23, 2011 @ 7:02 am


    Right, Patrick. Thank you.

  • Comment by RW Schaefer — July 9, 2011 @ 10:35 pm


    Just arrived here, have not read through all these comments yet.
    Just found 2 new Elizabeth Moon books last week, which wiped out my weekend last. Although wondering in 2010 when she would put out a new book, but having stated that she’d ended Vlatta and Suiza, I pined away rereading Paks and Suiza a few times, plus had 2 of my copies of Paks lent out. Missed out on OoF until now.

    My initial comments, hope they’re not repeats:
    1. Map for KotN does not label Lyonya. Chaya and Halveric, but not Lyonya, nor does it seem to show borders. Also not sure of the difference between square and round locations. I once spent some time trying to create a map using the locations, directions, roads, and travel times relative to each other in DoP, but a canon map from the author would be much more helpful.
    2. What is a “hand gallop” in KotN? I’m not horse-knowing, but had not recalled “hand gallop” in DoP nor in Suiza/Serrano terminology, nor other sources. Is it a term unique to Paks world, or a repetitive typo or spell-check error, on place of “hard gallop” in each instance?
    3. Why does Arian leave her horse, surely to die, at the end of KotN? She obtained from the firestarter a promise to not leave the horse to die, then had apparently bound or spelled the horse to stay put while she left, but then never returned, instead haring off to Chaya at the end. Firestarter claimed she was so wise, yet this suggested she is uncaring, I’d expect more from her.

    I like the way some of the story arcs have been paused here. For 20 years we’ve been salivating at the comuppance that Duke Verrakai would face after Ammerlin’s message reached the prince. Now we wait to see the comuppance the Pargun (and maybe Achrya) face from the Dragon King.

    Can’t hardly wait. And have been informing others that I’ve hooked onto Paks.

  • Comment by RW Schaefer — July 9, 2011 @ 10:57 pm


    Rememberfied my othe comment:
    Also looking forward the the 2 elves who betrayed the Lady’s family getting their due when Arian becomes Queen and she lets Lady know about their shenanigans.

    Semper Fi.

  • Comment by elizabeth — July 9, 2011 @ 11:12 pm


    Welcome to the blogsite.

    The lack of labeling for Lyonya on the Kings map is a known error, already reported to publisher. My goof. I thought they’d use the labeling from the Oath map (both made from the same master map.) It should be fixed in the next book’s map. The reason for borders not being shown was discussed here before; “hard” borders won’t be shown because borders have been fluid and in dispute over the centuries. When I finish the master map, and am able to have it printed full size (not in the books, as a poster) I will stipple the disputed areas…but it’s still supposed to look like a period map.

    Hand gallop is common equestrian term, but I suppose not as well known beyond horse people. A hand gallop is a gallop (four-beat gait, faster than a canter, which is a three-beat gait) but “in hand”–that is, in control, not a flat out run. The rider has much more control at a hand gallop than at full gallop or top speed. The horse is more balanced, less likely to stumble on uneven ground, though not as balanced as at a collected gait.

    Not every action is shown: Arian’s horse was rescued, though she did not retrieve it herself. She knew it was being done. But that was not deemed plotworthy during revision, when cuts had to be made. Sometimes my favorite bits go into the scrap bin.

  • Comment by RW Schaefer — July 10, 2011 @ 2:12 am


    Elizabeth, thank you kindly for your response.
    I fear this may become an addictive site of reading.
    I should have stated how wonderful it was to read 2 more books by the best storyteller I follow. DoP is my most heavily loaned-out book, I have 3 or 4 copies myself.

    I have other comments, questions, thoughts which I don’t want to spoiler other posts with.
    1. When Aliam was compelled to seek the presence of the daskdraudigs for secret or covert talks, did the daskdraudigs the forward on these gleanings to other evil entities, or the one who installed it in Aliam’s garden house? Did it have time to do this after Andressat Count revealed his concerns?
    2. I’m assuming at this point the escaped and so far unfound Verrakai have met, colluded, and allied with Alured.
    3. Thinking of how the Verrakaien missing necklace got to the abandoned keep near Brewersbridge. Honorable Count/Baron of Brewersbridge area stole it from evil Verrakai, then succumbed of age without heir before evil forces took over his fort/keep. Or evil forces captured necklace from a traveler, which makes less sense – evil fighting evil…
    4. I now understand the 3rd book is done and being proofed and printed, and you are on the 4th book. Have not seen mention of the ttle of the 3rd, or do you not know? I am now hoping the 5th book will be like the 6th book of Suiza/Serrano – spilling into another book before end.
    5. Comment #48 – although the thief is dead, who hired the thief?
    6. In DoP the Lady stated that she had not intended to save Kieri from the Verrakai/Pargunese, but merely happened upon them at the right time. During Keiri’s conversations in these 2 books, he seems to have ignored that, or claims are made that imply the Lady did intentionally save him – so those entries don’t seem to jive for me while reading.
    7. Where are these short stories located? Are the Elis amd Dragon parts in Moon Flights, or elsewhere? I’ve never found MoonFlights on a shelf.
    8. Sib. From description, seems like coffee, yet from simple cryptography, would be tea. Intentional obfuscation?
    9. At Palace, trying to find transferred Verrakai – why not make a list of all Palace personnel who had fallen sick prior to or soon before the treason, and then have Dorrin check out each? This would seem the easiest course…
    10. Seems we now have a 4th location for magical transport besides Fin Panir, Luap’s Stronghold in Kolobia, and Gird’s cave: the Banast Tang. A 5th must exist, where Lady & elves were going to transport TO from the Banast platform. Perhaps more in Aarenis and old Aare.
    11. Wondering if Marshal/Knight Pir was stripped of his title, or if Girdsmen don’t do that.
    12. Somebody mentioned Old Aare buried in sand, because it succumbed to the Sandlord. I had considered the sand was a euphimism – Sandlord means dry, lacking water, lifeless; Sunlord meant life, giver of life. Thus Aare was cursed with lifelessness, not exactly buried in sand, just lacking plentiful fresh water.
    13. #72 – I assumed DragonKing had not eaten Achrya yet, simply because this scene would prove much toooooo juicy and satisfying for us to have missed out on.
    14. Regarding the printing of maps, perhaps the folks at QMX might be considered – I’ve bought wonderful maps from then concerning other fictional realms. And would buy something of Paks World as well.
    15. #76 – How did you get KotN on Paperback?
    16. In the past 6=12 months since Paks became Paladin at Master Oakhollow’s fire, maqery has sprung up or been unleashed in Kieri (over 50), Dorrin (over 40), and exposed in Dragonchildren. Cascading results from Paks activities, spurred by the Gods. Does this mean the Gods are displeased with the works of post-Luap Girdsmen? Or are they ramping up for a showdown with Alured?
    17. Elizabeth, are you familiar with the 4th color of human eyes? Very rare genetic combination, and only in women, but they theorized what wavelength it would be, and found at least one woman with the optic sensor. Also, dogs can see part of the infrared spectrum, which lesser heat gives off.
    18. I’ve wondered at the pronunciation of Tsaia, and considered it may be derived from Tsar/Tzar, which is also Csar/Czar/Ceasar/Emperor/King. So the T may have been silent.

  • Comment by elizabeth — July 10, 2011 @ 8:49 am


    Hi–since you’re new, you will have missed some recent posts explaining that I can’t reply to all comments (esp. ones that require a long answer) right now. To reprise: we have a serious medical situation going on in the family, with more surgery coming up, and thus my time is much more constrained than usual. It’s possible that others will step in to answer those questions of yours to which they know the answers, or that–as you have time to look back through the discussions–some will be answered. Right now I’ve got to dash on to something else. Apologies.

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